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wFrom: John McNamara
wtDate: February 26, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
Jim, I was awarded the MSCM before leaving Da Nang. I am very proud of receiving it. It is also one of the better looking medals.
John, SP5, Da Nang
Epilogue
The AFVN Yahoo Group wasn't the only group of veterans who were very unhappy with the idea of a medal for
drove operators (oops, sorry, pilots). As a result the idea was finally dropped.
This link goes to one example of a report on the decision to drop the idea.
wFrom: Jim White
wtDate: February 26, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
Let's keep the Army "pure." Give them the Air Force Commendation Medal. I agree that the PTSD is likely very different for those sitting in Nevada. I just meant to say that it could exist. And, I agree that the "inflation" factor should also be considered. (However, I doubt if anyone involved is.) My last military assignment between leaving AFVN and retirement was with MAAG-Taiwan. For doing what was to me just a rather ordinary job designed to keep O-6s and a general happy, I ended up with a Meritorious Service Medal. One reason was probably because I already had a Bronze Star? And, again, I would have been happy with a Joint Service Commendation Medal.
Jim
wFrom: John McNamara
wtDate: February 26, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
They already have a medal for these people-----it's call the Army Commendation Medal.
wFrom: Forrest Brandt
wtDate: February 25, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
When drone operators die due to rocket attacks, when they pull their turn on the perimeter, when one gets wounded by an IED, when seven of them are made POWs when their compound is over run, when they spend a tour living in the midst of the enemy... Yes, moral guilt can be a big part of PTSD and can affect an operator sitting in an office thousands of miles away from the AO, but the fact remains that the biggest danger to these warriors comes from the freeway system and fast food, not a foreign national. This award, even in the case where the operator is in a compound in a host country, states that his valor exceeds that of grunts, convoy operators, interpreters, medics, S/G 5 folks, psy ops. It elevates the drone operator not in plane above the pilots flying ALO, or refuelers, or gunships and slicks, or RECON, or cargo missions in and out of runways that require flare drops when landing and taking off. It also will lead to an instantaneous uptick in the # of Silver Stars and DSCs awarded to those who do fly in harm's way.
Forrest
wFrom: Jim White
wtDate: February 25, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
Why not take this line of thinking to its logical conclusion? If the drone gets a hole in the wing or something of that sort, then give the operator a Purple Heart. It is blown to smithereens or obvious didn't survey the crash, then immediately bury the operator in Arlington. (Dead or alive, being optional!)
But, on a more serious note. I imagine that the psychological impact of pressing a button while sitting at a computer console safely in Nevada and thereby killing anywhere from one to a dozen or more is not the same impact one has when shooting face to face and knowing full well that "if you don't kill him first, he is going to try to kill you." Therefore, I agree that perhaps a medal of some kind is in order. However, I don't agree with putting it above the Bronze Star for Valor. Above the Bronze Star for Merit--then maybe. But, how do you split the Bronze Star? Perhaps ask King Solomon?
Jim
wFrom: Bob Morecook
wtDate: February 25, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
That was realy funny! That was Very Creative!
Bob
wFrom: Bob Nelson
wtDate: February 25, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
Had to ask.
wFrom: Bob Nelson
wtDate: February 25, 2013
Subject: Just Wondering
Just wondering? Since the drone drivers have a very high ranking medal now, what would happen if the drone gets captured by the enemy? Will they be awarded POW recognition as well?
wFrom: Robert Vail
wtDate: February 24, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
My father received the Joint Service Commendation Medal for his service with AFVN. He was especially proud of that award.
wFrom: Jim White
wtDate: February 24, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
Embarrassingly enough, I got the Bronze Star for Merit for my year with AFVN. I still don't really understand why. Actually, I was hoping for the Joint Service Commendation Medal. I had over 8 years in joint service units (Japan, Vietnam and Taiwan) and never even got a hint of one. Maybe I can get one (JSCM) for my work on the new AFVN Web site?
From: Paul Poppino
tDate: February 24, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
But always in a combat zone. Not as a REMF in Las Vegas.
Best Regards,
Steve
wFrom: Ken Kalish
wtDate: February 24, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
Now that you mention it, Bob, I recall that any officer serving with the naval inshore operations units received a Bronze Star just for breathing longer than two minutes while chewing gum. PBR, SWIFT, STAB, Mikes, or support units, every officer left with his little box. The joke was that officers got the Bronze Star because they weren’t eligible for the Good Conduct Medal.
wFrom: Bob Morecook
wtDate: February 24, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
Bronze Star is sometimes given for non-combat stuff. SP5 Ted Stites got one from AFVN in 72/73. He did radio news.
Bob M
wFrom: Dick Ellis
wtDate: February 22, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
UPDATE: Reminder, there is a petition you can sign to get this looked at by White House which you can sign AT THIS LINK.
Lower the precedence of the new Distinguished Warfare Medal
The Pentagon is introducing a new medal to recognized the service of pilots of unmanned drones during combat operations. This medal will be placed in precedence order just below the Distinguished Flying Cross and just above a Bronze Star Medal. Bronze Stars are commonly awarded with a Valor device in recognition of a soldier's service in the heat of combat while on the ground in the theater of operation. Under no circumstance should a medal that is designed to honor a pilot, that is controlling a drone via remote control, thousands of miles away from the theater of operation, rank above a medal that involves a soldier being in the line of fire on the ground. This is an injustice to those who have served and risked their lives and this should not be allowed to move forward as planned.
wFrom: Dick Ellis
wtDate: February 22, 2013
Subject: Drove Medal
UPDATE: Reminder, there is a petition you can sign to get this looked at by White House which you can sign AT THIS LINK.
Lower the precedence of the new Distinguished Warfare Medal
The Pentagon is introducing a new medal to recognized the service of pilots of unmanned drones during combat operations. This medal will be placed in precedence order just below the Distinguished Flying Cross and just above a Bronze Star Medal. Bronze Stars are commonly awarded with a Valor device in recognition of a soldier's service in the heat of combat while on the ground in the theater of operation. Under no circumstance should a medal that is designed to honor a pilot, that is controlling a drone via remote control, thousands of miles away from the theater of operation, rank above a medal that involves a soldier being in the line of fire on the ground. This is an injustice to those who have served and risked their lives and this should not be allowed to move forward as planned.
wFrom: Dick Ellis
wtDate: February 19, 2013
Subject: Bronze Star gets Moved Down!
I hope this is not considered "political." This is not against Obama...it is only asking him to change a ruling regarding the ranking of a new military medal. As I understand it the White House has a website. You create a petition and if it gets so many signatures within a set time. They will respond to it.
Dickie, proud wearer of a Bronze Star
Petition demands Obama rank Bronze Star above hero medal for drone and cyber warriors
By Kristina Wong
The Washington Times
Monday, February 18, 2013
Pentagon uproar over Panetta's hero medals for drone operators, cybersleuths. A petition is urging the White House to lower the ranking of a new medal for drone pilots and cyberwarfare specialists that has drawn criticism for its ranking above the Bronze Star.
“Under no circumstance should a medal that is designed to honor a pilot, that is controlling a drone via remote control, thousands of miles away from the theater of operation, rank above a medal that involves a soldier being in the line of fire on the ground,” the petition posted on the White House website states.
SEE RELATED: Pentagon uproar over Panetta’s hero medals for drone operators, cybersleuths
The Washington Times first reported Friday that some warriors inside the Pentagon were questioning and mocking Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta’s decision last week to create the Distinguished Warfare Medal for cyber- and drone-combatants who sit inside stations outside a war zone.
The new medal recognizes “extraordinary achievements that directly impact on combat operations, but do not involve acts of valor or physical risks that combat entails.”
It ranks just below the Distinguished Flying Cross and just above the Bronze Star, which is awarded for extraordinary service to combatants in an actual war zone.
“This is an injustice to those who have served and risked their lives and this should not be allowed to move forward as planned,” the petition says of the Distinguished Warfare Medal.
The petition was created Thursday, a day after Mr. Panetta announced the new medal. By Monday, it had more than 4,700 signatures.
Any petition receiving more than 100,000 signatories in 30 days elicits a White House response. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/lower-precedence-new-distinguished-warfare-medal/5KdnkBBN
wFrom: Bob Morecook
wtDate: February 19, 2013
Subject: Brfoze Star Gets Moved Down!
Hi, Dickie, It does not appear to be controversial to me. Though certainly opinions can differ on this matter.
Good wishes,
Bob
New Medal for Drone Pilots Outranks Bronze Star
Background
The above link goes to an article in USA Today for February 13, 2013 about the Pentagon creating a new medal
for drone pilots (really?, aren't they actually just operators) that would be ranked above the Bronze Star.
Drone Medal
February 2013